IBIS Macromodel Task Group Meeting date: 19 October 2010 Members (asterisk for those attending): Agilent: * Fangyi Rao Radek Biernacki Ansoft: Chris Herrick * Danil Kirsanov Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg * Ambrish Varma Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli Cisco Systems: * Mike LaBonte Stephen Scearce Ericsson: * Anders Ekholm Intel: * Michael Mirmak LSI Logic: Wenyi Jin Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov Zhen Mu * Arpad Muranyi Micron Technology: Randy Wolff Nokia-Siemens Networks: * Eckhard Lenski Sigrity: Brad Brim Kumar Keshavan * Ken Willis SiSoft: * Walter Katz Mike Steinberger * Todd Westerhoff ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi Teraspeed Consulting Group: * Scott McMorrow * Bob Ross Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla (NOTE: The list above is been pruned to include only those attending at least one meeting in the past year, and reorganized by company.) The meeting was lead by Arpad Muranyi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Opens: - Arpad: Created an agenda from the task list - We may not get to all items - We should discuss BIRD 119 - Ken will have to drop off early - Walter: I can give an overview of BIRD 119 in 5 minutes - Mike L: Would like to address task group protocol changes suggested by Michael Mirmak - Mike sent an attendance count list to Arpad - The attendance list should be pruned to exclude attendees beyond 1 year - Also organize by company -------------------------- Call for patent disclosure: - none ------------- Review of ARs: - Arpad rework Typos BIRD draft to include Walter's ideas about documentation of Format - Done - Arpad address BIRD 114.2 escape sequences in strings - This will be discussed offline - Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft) for -AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the parameter passing syntax of the AMI models - Done, BIRD 117 & 118 submitted - TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE - [External ...] also? - Done, BIRD 117 & 118 submitted ------------- New Discussion: Typos BIRD discussion: - Ambrish: Have we gone over the other BIRDs? - Arpad: They have been submitted - We still can discuss Walter showed the BIRD 119 Reserved Parameters draft: - This is based on 2 years of problem solving - Many IC vendors have tools based on Matlab, etc. - They have to bring in other files for these tools - The BIRD proposes Supporting_Files, DLLPath, DLLid, Samples_Per_Bit - Also parameters for Broadband Analog, Equivalent-Circuit, Jitter - Added parameter dependency tables - This BIRD is related to Arpad's BIRDs 116-118 - Mike: The Equivalent-Circuit Analog parameters are a migration of simple data types from the IBIS file into the AMI file - Walter: True - Fangyi: Does this mean we can bypass IBIS files? - Walter: IBIS handles things AMI doesn't yet, like diff pins - Several other companies are also requesting these changes - Todd: Migrating these parameters is a pragmatic step - John: The IBIS buffer model only has [Model Selector] for variations - That can get very verbose - Arpad: This assumes there is a template circuit somewhere - IBIS-ISS would be less hard-coded - The AMI file could still parameterize it - Arpad: Should this be broken into smaller BIRDs? - Walter: A number of existing models need all of this - The ideas came from Opal - It would be best to vote on them as a block - Scott: The entire BIRD? - Teraspeed would object - This BIRD crosses multiple domains - John: We should not let "political" issues dictate our pace - Walter: It could be 4 BIRDs - Scott: I don't want to end up with more spec changes in the future - Walter: We can't foresee how Jitter will be handled for 10 years, for example - We did not understand how IC vendors would model jitter in their tools - EDA tools should reflect how they model - Scott: Mostly concerned about equiv analog modeling - The boundaries can be mushy - IC vendors can have dumb models that were mostly easy to do in Matlab - Walter: The Si designer has created analog partitions we can't change - Their algorithmic and analog models have to play together - Scott: The spec should be clear about what goes into each side - Walter: Reactive loads make that hard - Fangyi: It should define how analog will work with the IBIS model - Walter: I can either withdraw BIRD 119 or make it one of the 4 AR: Walter divide BIRD 119 into 4 separate BIRDs Arpad showed the Typos BIRD draft: - Changed format to be more formal - Changed Format to use symbols in <> instead of spelling out all options - Example "Format Table" is now just "Table" - Fixed indentation - Made the implicit default value for List to be the Typ value - Arpad: It could simply say the Typ is the implicit default for all types - Arpad: Should Description be required or optional for Model Specific? - Todd: It should be required - Walter: It should be optional with a recommendation to include it - Bob: Agree with Walter - Arpad: I made a change to say Model_Specific is not required - Arpad: Had to add three examples to show interchangeable Default and Value - The third example has Format Value - Walter: We have described parameter requirements in one place - We could say they're not List and leave it at that - Bob: Currently Description is required - Arpad: Added two examples for Tx_Jitter and Tx_DCD - One has Format added - Someone had asked for this - Other examples have Format removed - Walter: Tx_Jitter as Table is useful - Other formats are not useful for that - This will be in my BIRD - Arpad: Format has been removed from other examples - Similar changes made to other Rx parameters - Walter: We should clarify column types in Table examples - Arpad: The first column is always a name value - Bob: We need to revisit the whole issue of Table - There is no restriction, it can be used for anything - Arpad: Need to consistently spell "Data Format" - Arpad: The parser developer says there is a conflict between text and format - Not sure about the details AR: Arpad change Typos BIRD to say the Typ is the implicit default for all types AR: Arpad and Walter discuss parameter Default/Value examples ------------- Next meeting: 26 October 2010 12:00pm PT Next agenda: - BIRD 119 - Any other new BIRDs ------------- IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List: 1) Simulator directives